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Repeal
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« on: November 19, 2008, 02:08:33 PM »

I actually would have no problem with this, if they were flying THEIR jets on THEIR dime, but these are trips made on the company dime, and hopefully (in their eyes) the tax payer dime.

I watched a bit of the testimony today out of one of the execs, he was saying that the automakers NEED this money (25 billion) and that they are CONFIDENT that it would allow them to be financially secure, and become profitable enough to pay back this loan, and the billions they have in debt currently.  This made me feel much better, especially considering how well they have done over the last 30 years!

Then, in an amazing display of "Oh yeah, well I can be even more retarded than you can":

The UAW president  said that it's members should not have to "pay" for the mistakes the company has made (like paying their employees double what Toyota and Honda pay in the south, or 4 times what any other industry pays unskilled, uneducated employees) and that the union would be unwilling to negotiate any wages or retirements benefits with the "little 3".

On the surface it would seem to make sense for the workers to throw out the union, renegotiate and save most/all of their jobs.  They won't however, because their wages are so ridiculously inflated due to the union bargaining that they would rather be layed off and draw unemployment, as the monthly check for that will still be more than most loggers/miners are making. 

So...I'm voting Hilarious because I think eventually both sides will get what is coming to them.  The employees who refuse to negotiate lower wages will be out of work and the unemployment checks will run out, the Union will lose 300,000 paying customers and be unable to get the Southern Honda/Toyota employees to sign up for the same demise and the companies themselves will crumble or be bought up by foreign makers.

However, I reserve the right to change my vote if congress gives these ass clowns money.

« Last Edit: November 19, 2008, 02:10:21 PM by Repeal » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2008, 02:20:45 PM »

ripped verbatim on my site, as i couldn't agree more.
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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2008, 02:44:59 PM »

Congress will give them money.
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Repeal
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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2008, 02:47:48 PM »

Congress will give them money.

Not this congress....however I think after january you are probably correct....
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« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2008, 03:10:06 PM »

It would be hilarious if they didn't get the money...and the Big Three collapsed...and Detroit fell further into ruin...and that somehow led to the ignominious flight of the Red Wings from Detroit to Hamilton / Kitchener / K.C. / Las Vegas / Shanghai and the end of their reign of terror.

But, since Ilitch made his fortune on cheap crappy pizza...which is all these thousands of unemployed auto workers will be able to afford if the Big Three collapse...the witholding of the money will only strengthen Red Wings ownership.

So I vote infuriating.
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sanscrit
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« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2008, 04:09:34 PM »

I don't want the government to give a single penny to GM.

Every investor who bought the stock of a company who had a fundamentally broken business model and absolutely no innovation in their leadership deserves to get burned.

Every part supplier that granted GM huge lines of credit when it was clear that they were on unsure financial footing deserves to get fucked.

Every GM worker who makes $29+ per hour to do something like turn screws or drive a fork lift and who thinks that cake gig was going to last forever needs to wake up.

Every GM retiree who counted on Social Security and their GM pension as their only financial means after retirement (I am terribly sorry for them because they are the ones that are going to get hurt worst by this) should never have banked their financial future on the survival of a single company.

For the management of GM to come to Washington begging for money right now, even when they were hemmoraging cash before the big economic downturn, is pretty sick.

Check out this article on how GM is such a fantastic candidate for YOUR money.
http://wsjclassroom.com/archive/06may/auto2_jobsbank.htm
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« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2008, 05:28:00 PM »

Quote
I don't want the government to give a single penny to GM.

but what if the computer tells them to?
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Repeal
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« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2008, 05:36:00 PM »

Funny how Chrysler and Ford have been on the collapse/merger talks for over 2 years, and neither has been in the top 2 automakers in the last 12 months, but suddenly the economic collapse is the cause of their hardships.  The fact is millions of Americans were flocking to buy foreign cars for better mileage (see honda/toyota) better warranties (see hyundai) or better pricing on economy models (kia/hyundai) or better quality (see all of the above) for years before the economy started having trouble.  

I know Ford and GM both claim that they closed the "quality gap" (took 20 years for them to admit that there was one) several years ago, and that might be the case, but it will take years and years before that's proven.  

We are talking about three companies who, for 20 years have relied on the "Buy USA, Foreign Cars are Crap" moto's to motivate people to buy sub-quality products, and now they want us to take them at "their word".

Just the fact that they have gotten themselves into this mess with the UAW in regards to wages and pension is evidence that the companies are being run poorly.  No other labor industry in the world pays their employees like this and stays solvent.  
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Repeal
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« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2008, 05:43:18 PM »

Quote
n Flint, Mr. Mellon also sees change on the horizon. "I understand the Jobs Bank needs to have an end to it," he says. "I mean, they've paid me like $400,000 over six years to do nothing, to learn to deal blackjack. But buy me out. Retire me with something like $2,000 for every year I worked.

This fuck face made 400k over 6 years doing nothing but reading newspapers, watching movies and learning to deal Black Jack, now he wants to be bought out?  Um, how about you take the 400k that you made doing NOTHING over the last 6 years and call it even.  Fucking amazing.  This explains so much about Redwing fans it's not even funny.  After reading that article I want to change my vote!
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sanscrit
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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2008, 12:40:55 AM »

Quote
n Flint, Mr. Mellon also sees change on the horizon. "I understand the Jobs Bank needs to have an end to it," he says. "I mean, they've paid me like $400,000 over six years to do nothing, to learn to deal blackjack. But buy me out. Retire me with something like $2,000 for every year I worked.

This fuck face made 400k over 6 years doing nothing but reading newspapers, watching movies and learning to deal Black Jack, now he wants to be bought out?  Um, how about you take the 400k that you made doing NOTHING over the last 6 years and call it even.  Fucking amazing.  This explains so much about Redwing fans it's not even funny.  After reading that article I want to change my vote!

you are missing the point.  that guy never WORKED, so they can "buy him out" for nothing.
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« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2008, 08:49:01 AM »

This quote from yesterdays hearings by Rep. Brad Sherman (D) of California "Chrysler shuts down in Missouri a shift building the Dodge Ram, while continuing to build the same vehicle in Mexico, and then shuts down a plant in Missouri building the Dodge Caravan while continuing to run three shifts at a plant in Ontario. I'd like you to respond for the record whether you expect to get any bailout money from Ottawa or Mexico City, and if not, if you disinvest, as you close down plants, that you close down foreign plants and not U.S. Plants"

Fucking awesome. They want bailout money, yet continue to close down US plants and still build the same product in other countries.
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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2008, 09:27:29 AM »

Unfortunately there will be a bailout, it's all a matter of terms.

Repubs want to remove the strings attached to an earlier loan package that was to be used for re-tooling and R&D on "greener" vehicles. Dems don't like this because their constituents are more environmentally-minded. Dems are also against anything that would take away the copious and costly UAW benefits.

Dems favor a bailout in general because they are beholden to the UAW. Not sure why the repubs are even trying, maybe just to look like they're trying.

If no compromise can be reached before Obama takes office and the Dems ram through their free money proposal, I hope Chrysler dies first.  At least GM and Ford are trying to make decent vehicles even if their model sucks.
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« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2008, 11:53:13 AM »

This quote from yesterdays hearings by Rep. Brad Sherman (D) of California "Chrysler shuts down in Missouri a shift building the Dodge Ram, while continuing to build the same vehicle in Mexico, and then shuts down a plant in Missouri building the Dodge Caravan while continuing to run three shifts at a plant in Ontario. I'd like you to respond for the record whether you expect to get any bailout money from Ottawa or Mexico City, and if not, if you disinvest, as you close down plants, that you close down foreign plants and not U.S. Plants"

Fucking awesome. They want bailout money, yet continue to close down US plants and still build the same product in other countries.

i bet the shutdowns are related to the presence of UAW workers.  I wonder if UAW has its tentacles in Canada and Mexico...
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sanscrit
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« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2008, 11:59:06 AM »

Looks like they will likely get cash, albeit from a very ironic source:

Quote
It temporarily would divert to troubled automakers money from a program that currently finances the development of fuel-efficient vehicles. The aim would be to cover their immediate expenses.
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« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2008, 06:20:58 AM »

Work harder, those on bailout packages are counting on you.
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« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2008, 10:34:57 AM »

I'd pay my portion of the proposed money if I was promised that it would be used not to bankrupt, but to SHUTTER the whole works of the 3 of them, and then level Detroit.
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« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2008, 05:51:19 PM »

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Two days later, on Friday, General Motors Corp. announced that it is terminating the leases on two of its five private jets in an effort "to cut costs."

Thank god they are cutting costs.  I think I might terminate one of my private jet leases this month in order to buy food for my kids!

Seriously, this is supposed to inspire confidence that this company is ready to "turn the corner".  They are scaling back to 3 private jets!?  Hilarity continues!
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« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2008, 08:26:54 PM »

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Two days later, on Friday, General Motors Corp. announced that it is terminating the leases on two of its five private jets in an effort "to cut costs."

Thank god they are cutting costs.  I think I might terminate one of my private jet leases this month in order to buy food for my kids!

Seriously, this is supposed to inspire confidence that this company is ready to "turn the corner".  They are scaling back to 3 private jets!?  Hilarity continues!

lots of companies have or lease private jets for executive travel.  the company i work for does that.  the difference is that my company brings in 2 billion profit on 4 billion in revenue, so we can afford it.  to have a company that says they will run out of cash by the end of the year continue to pay for these jets is silly.  granted, those jets cost peanuts compared to the cash they are bleeding, but it at least shows good faith....
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